Interest in Justin's Campaign

[Tyler]

The only reason it's been adequate is because the one that isn't satisfied is the one that isn't running.

[Thanin]

Calling me out I see! Well played my friend, well played. This is probably true, that if you were running, the combats would be much more detailed and very rules oriented, with everything well planned out and very impressively structured. But if such a game were done at the sacrifice of roleplaying, story, or character development, then in my opinion it would be a tenth as enjoyable as it could. And beyond that, I’ve been in games where 3.5 was run in full detail mode. Boring as Hell. The amount of my imagination I got to use was pathetic; I’ve had more impressive dreams about D&D. And at least there I could just wake up when things started to get lame.

Regardless, I'm having fun in the game and I'm glad you're in it because, even with all your wackiness, I wouldn't have as much fun if you weren't there. My only real point here is that D&D can be immensely enjoyable with very little interference from the rules. Too many rules sap the imagination right out of a game, making it less fun in general. If I wanted to play a board game, I'd play Axis and Allies... which I do on occasion.

[Betterout]

Well, I busted out the Expert set last night in the ten free minutes I had before bedtime and looked back over it. I think it's really a doable prospect to run an early 80s era 0th Edition game. The main obstacle will not be conversion to or from the system, which shouldn't be too hard given the scant number of hard rules (um...encumbrance is listed as an optional rule...seriously), but instead obtaining the requisite number of rule books.

These sets were devised on a one-book principle, such that the DM material is in the same book with the player material. So, unless we have a couple of books on the table, there's going to be an annoying amount of sharing. Fortunately, there are numerous sets out there on eBay and other sites, and they're pretty cheap. For example, I bought an incomplete vintage Basic set night before last for about 10 bucks (no box, no dice... but it came with a lot of old 2nd Ed stuff I'd be glad to share with or hand over to an interested party). I bought it 'cos I think I gave my other copy to my li'l brother Kameron last year. This new (read as: 'old') one may be my only copy now. But, dang, it seems like I have at least one more copy of the Basic set somewhere. I guess I'll just have to start looking for it as we begin packing to move into our Neuhaus.

For those of you who are slightly more devious--and I don't necessarily advocate this........ There are probably less than 120 pages to the whole Oth edition oeuvre. These could be easily copied or scanned & printed at minimal expense. But, as you know, that would be stealing. Honestly, I don't know who holds title to these old TSR works anymore. Does anyone know if Hasbro/W.O.T.C. owns this stuff?

So, my question is this: Are these just silly fantasies, or are we really interested in trying a 0th Edition campaign? I can tell you truthfully, I am very interested--of course I am since I'm big into both simplicity and ambiguity. If it's gonna scare any off, it's not worth it. But if we're willing to give it a shot, it could be a delicious break from potatoes.

[Mike]

For what it's worth, 0th edition would scare me IN.

You're referencing here not the set of three slender booklets published by TSR in 1974 that came in a white box. I got my start on those and happily poured over each expansion (Greyhawk, Blackmoor...). You're really talking about the single red booklet that came in a box starting in about 1978. If that's 0th edition, then is the old set in the white box pre-0th edition or negative first edition?

[Jeff]

Copies of the books are not a problem if anyone wants them in pdf versions. I won't say anything else on the boards except that the 0th edition stuff can be had starting with the Chainmail supplement onward, including not just the red and blue books but the Cyclopedia that came out in the mid 80s that included everything through the Masters expansion.

Jeff

Or you can fork over $27.50 to Amazon for the Cyclopedia (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/1560760850/104-0250292-1727177?%5Fencoding=UTF8)...

[Betterout]

Mike,

I'm specifically talking about the 9th-11th printings of Basic, the "Red Box" edition, and the original Expert set. The first few pages of the "Blue Box" Expert book talk about the differences in the Basic printings leading up to the 9th. Truth be told, there weren't a great many changes that I'm aware of--less than a page worth, I'd imagine. Expert just expands the basic rules and allows characters to progress beyond third level. What I'm talking about when I mention 0th level is really Expert rules. But I suppose what is generally known by this term is everything sub-AD&D.

By the way, Basic was repackaged in about 1988, or so, with an Elmore painting on the cover. My friend Chris Todd bought that one, and we played it on and off with Tyler until about 1990. Tyler, do you remember when we played your 'gold dragons as NPCs' adventure at my mom's trailer in Checotah the summer before OSSM? That was a Basic adventure.

For more information on the history of the game and the various printings/editions, go here www.lyberty.com/encyc/articles/d_and_d.html.

[Thanin]

I'd still like to look at exactly what we're talking about, since I don’t remember much of anything about 0th edition. But, even having said that, I think I'd really rather do this than 3.0s. We already have a 3.5 game going. Let’s go for this 0th edition. And with such a light rules game, a player actually has more potential freedom than in 3.0s for character options (depending on the DM of course). But here we might be able to really let our imagination run wild… and since this could be a combat light game, why would we ever need all of those stupid feats? As for skills, that’s easily done. 0th edition would only help us focus on the kind of game Justin would want to run anyway. I haven’t heard anything from Rick on this though. Rick, what do you think?

[rickus]

I'm all for it. It'll be a bit of a learning curve for me, I don't think I'm alone on this. I never really got to play V.3 except for that short lived game we were playing about 2 years ago Dave.

[Tyler]

Hellyea, I remember. Peabody got into a fight with that punk kid over fish or how to fish or some craziness.

[Michael]

I just bid on a rules set on Ebay. Let's not bid each other up, please. I bid on the one that ends in about five hours (that's about 8 pm Wednesday) and comes with 18 decrepit looking miniatures, a 1st edition PHB, and a 1st edition Oriental Adventures. Now that's a motley aggregate of items. I've sent a back story to Justin for a character I hope will work out. If not, I have other ideas. I'll be out of the country May 12-30, but if my character shows up late, no problem. Everybody's welcome to play at my place in Norman, or I'll travel damn near anywhere within the state.

Mike

[rickus]

Mike, it is very kind of you to offer to host the game! Thanks! I look forward to meeting you.

[michael]

No problem, Rick. Looking forward to meeting you, too.

I feel like the luckiest middle-aged boy in the world for having just secured basic and expert rules off ebay. I started playing D&D in 1975 and quit around 1979 having never made the switch to AD&D. These books aren't quite old enough to reclaim my youth, but they're close. Then one day in 2002 I was sitting around with some slack, pot head friends who came up with the idea that it would be a hoot to play D&D again. I took them seriously and purchased vintage books right away. Once sober, they were totally horrified at the thought of playing and have ridiculed me endlessly since. They were kidding in that irony-laden way people kid nowadays. I wasn't kidding, I thought their idea was great. Then began a weird search for a game after a 23 year hiatus. That put me in contact with David. These 1980s expert rules are kind of new-fangled to my way of thinking, but I'll try not to wax endlessly about those crazy books that came in that white box. Those things cost a fortune on ebay now. $150-200 typically. Sigh.

Anyway, how soon can this happen? How does the first Saturday in May sound?

Mike

[Betterout]

Actually, the purchase of our new house is going to put things on hold until June or after. We have to get packed up and move. And as if that's not bad enough, my mother-in-law just sold her house, and we're going to have to help her move. AND, my sister is buying a new house, and she'll be moving the same time. So, I think the month of May is basically out. At one time, we were planning on taking a trip the first weekend in May, but I think the house experience has cancelled those plans as well. But, this will give us a little more time to plan this caper. On the bright side, my brother Jeff should be in Oklahoma the first week in June some time...

[Tyler]

Wow, the property market in Pawhuska is jumping.
We'll have an extra room in my house by that time, so if anyone ever needs a place to stay, we have it.

[rickus]

We have "some" room at my place as well (inflateable bed). We also have a single bed if for some reason there's a need.

rickus

[Betterout]

Wow, I just noticed my typo in my poll question. It was supposed to be 'possibly' not 'possible.' Not possible.... story of my life.

Mike and I were discussing characters off board today when it dawned on me that it might help to hear just a tiny bit about the world the players will be born into. I don't want to give anything away, but I do want to give would-be players an idea of the place and nature of the first game setting. And it's nothing I wouldn't say in the first few seconds of play, anyway, so I'm not revealing anything. Trust me.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The characters are from a large island in an ocean far from the nearest mainland. There's the occasional intrepid visitor, but this is not common, as the island is very remote. There are few inhabitants for the size of the island. The inhabitants know of the outside world, and some have even been there, but most folks choose to stay put because of the great distances. It's a little like smalltown America in that any given inhabitant either knows a particualr person very well or knows one of her close relatives. The diet consists mostly of salted fish from the lagoon and a few staple crops grown on the low slopes of the extinct volcano. There is noticeably more divine than arcane magic in the population centers. There has never been a name for the island, as there has never been call to refer to it as anything other than home. For the most part, life is calm and slow-paced.

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Oky, if you want to come up with a backstory from this, please feel free. But stop just short of leading the character to the very brink of play. Basically, don't bother to account for what has happened in the past week or two. If you have something else in mind, just PM me and we can figure something out.

[rickus]

Sounds very tropical. Nice. So, it is or isn't a 0th edition game? Perhaps we could put up a poll for that?

[Betterout]

Good idea, Rick, but I guess we can't put a poll on another poll, and I'd hate to start another thread that's really just an extension of this one. So, instead, I'm going to do it this way.


If you're interested in playing in my campaign, which version would you prefer?

A.) 0th
B.) 3rd

I would have listed other options, but I'm not really interested in them for this game. Right now, the game is configured for 3rd, but I've been really thinking hard about 0th. Plus, Michael and I have both purchased old Basic sets... Now, I kinda feel compelled to get my money's worth!

[Tyler]

Tyler says:
b.

[Tyler]

David says:
b.