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Post by Jeff on Jun 22, 2006 8:14:35 GMT -5
I think maybe only Adam is as excited about the new Superman movie as I am. I remember after seeing Superman II Adam and Lori asked Jason and I to tell them what happened. Jason told Lori and I told Adam. We walked all over my dad’s property telling the story as slowly and carefully as we could. I think I took about 30 minutes to tell my version. The first two Superman movies were great and the next two not so much. But I just ignore the two bad ones and concentrate on what I really like about the first two. 1. Margot Kidder as Lois Lane—I have to admit a childhood fascination with almost everything about her. 2. General Zod—One of the best screen villains of all time, in my book. 3. The vision to depart from TV Batman campiness and take Supe seriously. (The abandonment of this is one of the reasons the third movie sucks so much.) 4. John Williams’ genius score, which is equal parts Straussian Zarathustra and Hollywood yearning. I got to conduct part of it when I was a drum major. I remember the kids got mad at me when I tried some rubato. In their view my job was just to make time public. 5. The whole religious aspect of the Superman story. What if Nietzsche was right and God (Jor-El—even the name, see) is dead. But the son, Kal-El still lives and is sent to earth to save it? If Supe is Jesus, then all the expressions of his humanity are much more interesting. I often think of that when in Superman I he takes Lois Lane for a flight around NY in the “Can you read my mind?” sequence. Wouldn’t it have been nice to see Jesus comfortable with his power and even taking joy in it, laughing? Instead, Christ’s power is treated so seriously that you wonder if Jesus ever told a joke (which, of course, he did (Matt 23:24) though it's not very funny). But I sometimes wish that the shortest verse in the bible was “Jesus laughed” rather than “Jesus wept.” Anyway, I could go on but I’m out of time. If you are getting in the Overman mood, here is a place you can listen to the entire score of the new film, free and legal: www.rhino.com/fun/listeningparties/77654_PartyPlayer.lasso
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Post by chris on Jun 22, 2006 10:21:08 GMT -5
I agree with it all except the Margot Kidder bit... I think she was just a gawkish Lois Lane, more annoying than spunky.
General Zod is indeed one of the great film villains, right up there with Vader and Hannibal Lecter. With a lot of villains, they say they're all "evil" and such, but they never seem to be an embodiment of the true devastation to humanity that their actions would cause. Lex Luthor? He's more a caricature in the movies than a scary threat. Zod actually seemed to look upon humanity as insects, and seemed to relish the idea of either squashing them or ruling them with an iron fist (all except Australia, of course).
John Williams is the man. Without him so many of the movies that defined "blockbuster" would have fizzled into nowhere. I think film history will look back 100 years from now and really recognize that he was the most creatively influential person on movies in the past 30 years, above Spielberg and the like.
>Wouldn’t it have been nice to see Jesus comfortable with his power and even taking joy in it, laughing?
Yes, but would Jesus have looked through Mary Magalene's robes to see what color her panties were?
"And Jesus did say: Sister, you go commando."
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Post by jtmx1 on Jun 22, 2006 16:01:15 GMT -5
I don’t know why I had a crush on Margot Kidder when I was nine. She is ungainly and awkward. She’s pretty but not a knockout. Her acting is serviceable, for a comic book movie. And worst of all, she’s just a year younger than my mother! Still, I remember my heart racing a little when I saw her in Superman I and The Amityville Horror. Don’t know why, but here is a guess: I’ve always liked gawkish women. The more poised and practiced a woman appears to me, the less interested I am. I’ve sometimes been accused of worshipping Pussilia (If you’ve seen 40 Year Old Virgin, then you know what I’m talking about.) But this has never been true. I like powerful, strange, inward, slightly insane, mystical women. I prefer them introverted and with an IQ higher than mine, but those points are negotiable. It’s not that I worship these women, I just seem to get along with them without much effort. So, I guess I had a crush on her in 1978 because I was lazy. Anyway, I readily concede my wholly idiosyncratic like of Kidder’s Lois Lane. This is interesting for a comparison of Lois’ various incarnations: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lois_LaneJeff
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Post by sarah on Jun 22, 2006 17:09:35 GMT -5
The image that is forever branded in my mind of Margo Kidder, is the tragic result of mental illness paired with a failing career and lack of resources. I do admire her though, and for different reasons than her down-to-earth looks and unstarched manner: I admire her for her flaws and susceptibility. Her story is a reminder that whatever grasp I have on the world around me is easily stripped away-- and by far less than a chemical imbalance. Anyway, here is a link to an article that was written in 1996 after the incident. www.pbs.org/newshour/essays/kidder_5-6.html
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Post by Thanin on Jun 22, 2006 18:35:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure there was ever any religious aspect intended with the superman comic. I think we can glean such from them, but I think that's as far as it goes. And I always thought zod was more of a hapless villain. Like he was probably this inept criminal on his home planet and then just kind of stumbled onto his super powers on earth. I’d say he’s an example of what would happen if a small time crook became invulnerable and could fly, since his only real idea was to rule the world but never seemed to have an interesting reason or plan to do so.
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Post by jtmx1 on Jun 22, 2006 21:00:19 GMT -5
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Post by jtmx1 on Jun 22, 2006 21:05:05 GMT -5
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Post by Tyler on Jun 23, 2006 8:35:28 GMT -5
I always thought superman sprung from a guys want to beat shit up. Thus Spake Batdorf
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Post by CaptAdam on Jul 4, 2006 8:33:38 GMT -5
Superman, a comic and a fanitice that I have lived with the majority of my life. He like so many other heros, Batman, Captian America, Spiderman, the Xmen and many more, always find some way to defeat the bad guys and save the day, they are given great obsticals to over come both physical and emotional. The physical is always tied to the emotional, cause when you read the books and really get into them they sweep you away as if it where you doing all the fighting. It's how they deal with the tragittys, the distruction that is left in the after math of their battles or when they are to late to save some one. The rage and revenge that some of the heros hold on to and the others that refuse to give into their anger striving to be better than the criminal element that they fight.
What the writer makes them stand for using Superman and Captian America as my top examples.
Strength both inner and outer
Intouch with the common person even though they have powers they see that the common person is even more super than they because we have no powers and yet we keep on trying.
The niavity as many put it to believe in silly things such as Trueth Justice Fair play Loyalty keeping ones word Never give up, Never surrender Dependability Trying to save the villian even when they know that the world would be a better place with out them. Makeing the hard choices who to help or save first knowing that they may not get to the seconded one in time. Or finding that slim option that allows them to save them all leaveing the reader and the villian in amazement and thus earning them the title of Hero yet again.
Just a few thoughts on the sujects, I know in some ways I've tryed to tailer my own actions and thoughts to mirror these fictional heros, I just don't have the powers or the spandex.
Or do I?
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Post by Thanin on Jul 8, 2006 23:14:37 GMT -5
The creators Jerome Siegel and Joseph Shuster acknowledge that the name Superman was taken from Nietzsche but the character used telekinesis, was bald and a bad guy. So it never started out with a christ connection, but I don't think that takes away from the connection, its just more manufactured after the fact than it was intended.
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Post by Thanin on Jul 13, 2006 11:26:11 GMT -5
So whom as seen this? Whats the general consensus? The reviews on rotten.com are lukewarm at best.
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Post by jtmx1 on Jul 13, 2006 13:38:36 GMT -5
Here are some of our opinions:
Maddie: D- Emily: B+ Jeffrey: C
The big problem I had with the film is that it is emotionally inert. And that is so strange, since it makes every effort to engage the emotions. There is very little action and the plot is simple and slow. So, Singer must have thought he was giving us character development. But none of the characters develop. They are presented in the stereotypical comic book ways and then they just sit there as if our reverence for Superman is enough. I tried to indicate that I revere the man of steel quite a bit, but this movie did almost nothing for me. There are two or three images of Great Beauty, e.g., Superman rising above the earth into the sun. But you can see most of these in the trailers. Overall, you get a contemplative Superman who thinks no new thoughts. And that's sad. For all his strength, Superman comes off pretty shallow in the film.
Alas.
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Post by Tyler on Jul 13, 2006 14:39:10 GMT -5
SPOILER:
What's with Superman trying to break up a marriage?
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Post by CaptAdam on Jul 14, 2006 0:25:48 GMT -5
Sorry to see that not all share my love for this perticular Hero, and I know this just shows how messed up I am to try and defend an imaginary character as if he where real.
As for Tyler's question, Superman never tryed to break up the potential marriage. His love for Lois is well documented in comic history, he has move mountains and if need be planets for this woman. He has married her and seen her die in many different alternate worlds of comic history. But, he has never forced her to choose him over another or even her career. Yes I do agree that the movie portrays a more human side to Superman a type of jelousy, but if you know the comic history then it's not a surprise.
That's just my opion on that subject is all.
As for Maddie: D- Emily: B+ Jeffrey: C and the emotionly enertness of the movie, I guess I don't see what your seeing. I rember back when Superman 3 came out, right around my birthday and one of the few things that my Dad would treat us to was on our birthdays we got to go eat at the Western Sisler and I was allowed to have a steak and even though he though it was sacralige I was allowed to dump ketchup on my bakepotatoe like it was a giant french fri. Then after eats we got to pick the movie we wanted to watch and again even though he tryed to encourage me to go see Empire Strikes Back or maybe it was Return of the Jedi. I held firm to see Superman, now for my Dad to let this slide even when he didn't think much about comics was quite the Superhuman feat. So I got to watch Superman 3 with Richard Pryer and I loved it, and I still do, as I have enjoyed all of the Superman incarnations to date and may always do so.
The Superman movies and Comics have always held my emotions in the palm of their hands. I grew up in fear of my father even though I loved him and only ever wanted to please him. In that weird kind of way I related to the superheros of the comics, fighting against an insurmountable obstacal and never refuseing to give up. It only took 39yrs of my life but it has happened I have this mans respect as a Man in his eyes, when others would have choosen to given in to bitter resentment and choose to hate or continue to find fault. Saying such as "if he wants a relationship with me well he can just crawl on his belly and kiss my you know what, cause he treated me like a second class person my whole life". The sad part is I could have developed such an attitude and know one not even my own mother would have blamed me for it.
But like my hero's and Superman being the number one I was saved by my mother and even some times my friends only to turn back around and fly back into a countinant of Kryptonite and push past the pain to save something I believed was worth fighting for in my case it was a relationship.
I loved the special effects and the story line and the characters and I will love to go see it on the Imac with Rick if the chance does present it's self.
One of the greatest things that Priscilla bought me was some DVDs of the old 40s Superman cartoons along with the some of the old saturday morning Challenge of the Superfriends. I have set and watched them by myself just like I did so long ago, and now I set and watch them with my Children and both Atira and Jerimiah know and can say Superman. They even request to watch them when I'm at work. Atira loves to run around with a Cape on and prettend to fly. To be able to share something so trivial to others with my children is a great gift and I just hope when they get older that they don't think I'm to weird for still enjoying watching Superman.
I only wish my friends could see Superman through my eyes, I suppose in this case amazement and wonder is in the eyes of the beholder and not so for all.
So try not to be to harsh on the movie I know it's not for all, but as for me: I'm able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, Run faster than a speeding bullet, More powerful that a steaming locomotive. Look up in the sky, It's a Bird! No it's a Plane! It's Superman Strange vistor from a distant planet, Who disguised as a mild manner reporter for a great metropolitain newspaper, fights for Truth, Justice and the American Way
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Post by Jeff on Jul 14, 2006 0:53:32 GMT -5
Hey Adam,
Just wanted to say that I love the character, and I love the films Superman I and II, but this new film didn't really work for me. I think it was better than S. III and IV, though. (But for the record: the junkyard scene where Superman fights Dark Superman the third film was pretty damn cool.) Still, Superman Returns didn't engage me very deeply or very much.
I'm glad you liked it. I hope lots of people see it so the studio will back another Superman movie in the near future.
Jeff
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