Year 2 Projects

[Jeff]

First, there have been so few posts in the last two weeks that I really wonder whether this website isn’t already dead. I think that if I have finally offended David so deeply that he won’t return, then the site is probably dead or at least that I should quit spending time here. Obviously I don’t always play well with others. I suppose I have a dictatorial streak, even though I work very hard not to.

Anyway, if we do decide to keep hanging out here for another year, here are some ideas for group projects.

1. Indigenous podcast/streaming radio. Chris floated this a few weeks back. The idea was that with our music and commentary we could produce a podcast every other week or so. I would even be willing to do the audio production work, though if someone else wants the job, I would rather be just a contributor. I think the podcasts would be small enough that we could use savefile.com to store them, as I do my musical offerings. Having our own webspace would be preferable, but unnecessary. As we assembled stories/songs/essays we might think of doing an internet radio stream, which would require webspace, I think. If this ever came about we could do live segments of any format you desire. Eventually, you could have your own internet radio show that would draw at least 5-10 listeners, and, who knows, maybe more over time.

2. Indigenous book club. We’ve talked about doing this several times. A few of us even got copies of that book on Paul. But somehow this idea has never taken off. Since I have one interested party, Justin, I am going to lead a slow (year-long) reading of Whitehead’s Process and Reality. I’ve already started making some notes and a schedule. I will post more about it later this week. But, of course, any of you could pick another book for us to study or even a poem.

3. Disjunction II: I get the impression that David really hates the idea that the board is the essence of DII. We should all decide what DII really is and put some effort into producing it. If it is some incarnation of the board, what form should it take?

4. Indigenous outreach: I would like to see us put some thought into how we could work together to make the world a better place. Rick seems to be the pioneer in this area with his environmentalism. I am sure that we could even generate a little cash for a good cause. There are lots of other things we could do, too: letter writing campaigns, demonstrations, public speaking, bricks and bats, etc… Anyway, I would like to see us move a little in the dream into action area.

5. [Insert you great ideas for us here.]

Jeff

[amanda]

I visit the site daily... I just haven't had anything substantial to contribute lately. Well, that and things have been really busy at work. We're having to juggle two caseloads in addition to our own since we have a vacancy and a co-worker out on medical leave.

I'd be all about a book club, if anyone else is interested. The book on Paul is gathering dust on our bookcase, but I'd be happy to pick it up again. I'm sure I'll read it eventually, anyway. I juuust started reading Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell if you's guys would like to read that... I have a list I'm (slowly) working through. But, really, I'd be up for just about anything. I just wanna read. Yeah.

[amanda]

Oh. Here's the list, in no particular order (though I'm sure you've read a lot of these):

Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke
Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole
Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
Candide by Voltaire
Notes from the Underground by Fyodor Dostoevsky
The Idiot by Fyodor Dostoevsky
Crime & Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky
Holidays on Ice: Stories by David Sedaris
Christ: Crisis in the Life of God by Jack Miles
God: A biography by Jack Miles
The Historian by Elizabeth Kostova
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis
Chronicles of Narnia by CS Lewis (I am terrifically bored with this series, but I've read the first two and have sort of committed myself to finishing. So, at some point, I will trudge through The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, The Silver Chair, The Horse and his Boy, The Magician's Nephew, and The Last Battle... in the hopes that they become more interesting as I go.)
A Feast for Crows by George R.R. Martin (I still haven't made it past page 200 something....)

I'm sure there are others. The list keeps growing...and growing and growing and..

[rickus]

"First, there have been so few posts in the last two weeks that I really wonder whether this website isn’t already dead. ...or at least that I should quit spending time here."

First I don't think the board is dead. I think people, (like myself) are very busy. I put in 13 hours of overtime last week, and also am working out at the gym like mad. Trying to squeeze in some time on the board is the last thing on my mind. And I'm sure that's the case with other members of the board as well. I honestly don't have the time to be adding this comment, but wanted to put in a note before you did something drastic, like not posting anymore. "Don't you dare abandon this board!" As for David's absence, we've all been aware of the fact that our volleys can be quite sharp. David's been an active participant in the testing of how thick a persons skin can be. Unless you insulted his Mom or called for the mass eradication of all Native American's I don't think there's much that you could say that would cause him to up and leave. If however he has decided to go, an exodus won't fix his absence.

That you've continued to post since you started this thread tells me that you aren't giving up on the board yet. I'm glad of that.

I liked all of your ideas, but more than anything I'd like us to work on dialog. I'm guilty of what I'm about to say so please don't take it as an indictment but as an observation. We're not really engaging one another in conversation on the board any longer. We're using it as a place to post links to things we've found on the net. Or posting pictures, music or what ever. Many of these things don't really require comment or question, and so the conversation ends. Not that I have anything agents links. I like them and want to see them continue, but where's the conversation.

Jeff, I know you've tried to initiate dialog on several occasions. Perhaps I'm being unfair when I say this but I don't know if you're really attempting to create a conversation or an opportunity to tell us your ideas. Occasionally your prodding at conversation reminds me of Lucy in Peanuts, taunting Charlie Brown with the football. You ask a nice little innocuous question, and when we naively answer it with our little undergraduate ideas you bring out the 50 syllable words and body slam us. When I can't understand what your saying is when I stop reading. I know there are some real intellectual giants on this board, that can easily go toe to toe with you. But then at some point the dialog ends up being between 2 or 3 people. The rest of us didn't disappear into thin air. We sitting here on the outskirts looking in, and trying in vain to puzzle out what's going on. Some members have privately admitted to me that they're intimidated to the point of impotence by the sportsman (read: hunter) like posting that occurs. Maybe it's unfair of me say that, but I feel it's true.

Jeez... I kind of sound like a big cry baby. Don't I? "I can't understand what you're saying. Waa Waa Waa."

Sorry about that!

I value what I learn here. And I feel that this group as a body has been the best teacher I've ever had. You've all helped me grow emotionally, spiritually and intellectually (I think). I want that to continue. But I'm not so sure that it will if all we're doing is putting up links.

As I said earlier, I would like to see us engaged in more dialog. And for it to be as inclusive as possible. Thanks for your time!

rickus

[Tyler]

Calc I, Calc II, C++ and Assembly. That's why I've been absent.

[Jeff]

Rickus,

Thanks, for the honesty; I’ll try to reciprocate.

I know you guys are busy. I just think that I am over-invested in the goings on here. As an academic, I am afforded lots of time just to explore my ideas and creativity. That is one of the reasons I chose my current profession. And I was oh so lucky to find steady work in a field where only 40% of PhD’s have a job. I completely lucked out. But instead of reading philosophy journals and sparring with my colleagues, I find that I am here still prodding you guys with my best thoughts. Why?

Maybe I am weak; maybe I still haven’t found a way to leave “home.”

I don’t think that’s it.

Rather, I am overwhelmed by the feeling that the most important thing that I can do with my free-time is to talk to you. I don’t think we are changing the world here, but my own most personal changes are generally instigated by my family or someone here on the board. And I guess I am selfish about how I spend my time.

But then, maybe we are changing the world, one world at a time. I could cop out and join a system that I really don’t believe in, where people I really don’t respect are handed dubious honors.

Sometimes I think we are a little cave, and I am crawling away from the world to huddle with my friends.

Sometimes I really do think that we are pioneers. Look at our work 10 years ago on Disjunction and compare it to today’s culture. We anticipated a hell of a lot. And I think we still do. For example, the wiki defeats the blog, and when the rest of the world realizes that, old mediums of knowledge will be even more obsolete than they appear now. There is so much I could say, but I will only allow myself this: The sentiment of a Kyle in a group like ours is braver and more important than 1,000 right wing mutterings on the web, even the really important ones. How did we get Kyle? Rick made him feel at home here, and to his lasting credit he has not abandoned us despite our taunts and jibes. Perhaps he sees that we do not easily abandon friends, and he is certainly that by now. (I'd sure like to meet you someday, Mr. Kyle!) For decades we have simply refused to surrender the bonds to home, family, and friendship that professional association normally demands. I commend all of you for this, but even more to the point, I can’t take my eyes off you because of it.

Still, I wonder if we’re not deluded. Am I overestimating our importance? (We are back again to the mark of Cain conversation with which we began this board.)

But look at our prognostications: Didn’t we predict the political importance of religious values to the Democratic Party back in 1995? Isn’t Justin’s music really prescient? Wasn’t David’s political anger about 5 years ahead of it’s time? Isn’t what went on in 2004 between Adam and the rest of us on the Christian Politics board still ahead of its time, still something that has not happened in the mainstream to any significant degree? Think of Rick’s self-effacing environmentalism or Lonnie’s current documenting of her personal tragedy: In all of these cases I think we are going where people have been afraid to go. And I think our farsightedness is a direct result of our unwillingness to abandon each other. When I wrote earlier that wisdom doesn’t get beyond categories like friendship, presence, and compassion, I meant it. I mean it now: Abandon your heart and you will achieve nothing but regret. We have always made sure that friendship and presence were the operative categories on the board. And we are, again, ahead of the curve because of it.

Think of it. David not only anticipated viral video (by more than a year), but he has also made important philosophical and emotional points simply by posting links. And we could only understand them because of our closeness to him as a human being intent on self-perfection. I think each of you could construct his basic view of the world simply by remembering his posts. Isn’t this a real achievement? Maybe even an important cultural achievement?

How much of your attention should it command? Always our self-doubt lies just in the wings. It can’t be us. We aren’t special. Doesn’t everyone think these thoughts? Come on…the revolution starts in Oklahoma? Yeah, Right.

Maybe it doesn’t. I doubt you guys whenever I can. I still read the best papers, journals, and commentary. Why doesn’t it move me or affect me properly? Maybe I am stupid and low. Maybe my demand for relevance will never be satisfied. Maybe my attempt to pull the world into the preconditions of respect and fraternity that we have fostered here on the board is just another adolescent attempt to flee from the Real World. Or maybe it is another vision of that world, one I sure like a lot more...

I hope you guys will forgive me for (perhaps) overestimating your importance, but I still plan to risk neurosis (psychosis?) for our sake. Or maybe I am just stupid and foolish. That’s the thought that makes me want to quit and write a philosophy paper for a real journal.

Jeff

[jtmx1]

I formally apologize for that rant. It does seem to be the product of megalomania. Chalk it up to the fact that I’m six beers into a stupor or to a brainless and ego-inflated attempt to lovingly save that which can be saved. (Why is that my job?!?!) An artist simply states. A dogmatist presumes. But I am a philosopher, and that is somewhere in between. I am forever attempting to urge the rationality of some cause or another. Again, I probably have some kind of psychological dysfunction here.

Jeff

[rickus]

"I would like to see us put some thought into how we could work together to make the world a better place... There are lots of other things we could do, too: letter writing campaigns, demonstrations, public speaking, bricks and bats, etc…"

I've long had a knot in my stomach about global warming. Oddly enough it's the same feeling I get when I soberly concentrate on my mortality. And as of late the subject has been getting much attention. If you have a subscription to TIME magazine you're probably aware of the more alarming and sad repercussions of climate change as this weeks magazine is dedicated to the subject.

Ever since I reported my failed attempt to disseminate literature about the topic in Boise ID, I've had the itch to try my luck here in Oklahoma. I'm sure the welcome I'd receive would be the same. But I cant help but feel that people still don't get it. Everyone's still walking around saying to themselves, "Well there's nothing I can do about it," when exactly the opposite is true.

So I've been toying with the idea of going down to OKC's Brick Town and handing out the same brochure I tried to hand out in Boise, entitled "10 things everyone can do to help prevent global warming". But, rather than walking around, arm outstretched, and a brochure at the end of it. I thought I would erect a small table. On the table skirt would be a sign saying "Free light bulbs!" Of course I would have my "Ten Things" brochure there. But in addition I would have sign-up sheets for subscribing to OG&E's Wind Power service. Everyone who signed up would get a free compact florescent light bulb.

Now some brief explanations:

1. Why Bricktown? That's where the people are. It's hard to find a place that's open to the public and were people are milling around on the sidewalks in this city. As much as I hate Bricktown for its glutenous concentration of self indulgence, and consumerism, others really seem to love the place.

2. Hostile confrontation aside, wondering around passing out literature is uncomfortable for the person doing it and the people whom you want to take it. However few people are uncomfortable about approaching a table that has the word "FREE" on it. And, just addressing the people who are interested in what you're doing makes it easier to be there.

3. The Light bulbs would be the draw. But there's the benefit. If I can get people to sign up for the Wind Power, that's one less customer for coal or natural gas power plants. Thus less CO2 going into the atmosphere. A compact florescent light bulb uses about a fourth of the electricity as a standard incandescent light. Thus reducing the amount of electricity that person is likely to use and also reducing the amount of CO2 produced.

4. It creates an opportunity to engage people in a dialog about the cause. I don't know if in Oklahoma, this would be a good thing or not, but the opportunity to change someone's mind or educate them about the possibilities would then be present.

I guess the reason I'm telling you all of this, is so you guys will either encourage me to do it (and maybe help out), or tell me why I'm blinking mad for thinking up such a stupid idea, and convince me to find another way to address the issue. And lastly, to help me explore ways to make the idea even better.

As always, thanks for your time!
rickus

[Betterout]

First of all, yeah, the board needs to continue. Second of all, Rickus, I remember you telling me about the light bulb idea (hey, what a great mental image) back in December, and I've thought about it from time to time since then. It really is a great idea. I don't know how to help out, but I'd be willing to if possible. Third of all, Jeff, don't worry about things so much. We're all happy to be here when we are here. I, too, have been crazy busy, or I'd be here all the time. My new coworker keeps me on my toes at work... No more poking around on and off all day.

Lastly, I still really like the idea of a podcast. Rather, I like the idea of a series of podcasts. And here's one way we could do it (or at least start it). Think of it like a TV show. We aired the pilot (Disjunction), and the powers that be liked it enough to have given us about thirteen episodes, one a week, at an hour a pop. The producers have given us a mandate to work within our established parameters and continue to deliver quality stuff, but otherwise the format is ours to define. So, we went into a huge brainstorming session (the board), and now we're going to sort through all the wheat and chaff, and focus on a number of key 'story arcs' (the individual thread discussions) we'd like to see developed and presented in this first season. The thing is, we'll want to stagger the ideas so that there is an overall arc to the entire first season, and we'll do so by introducing the little arcs piece by piece, several per episode, and checking back in on them often. It's a variety show. Yeah, I know there's no real climax or even resolution to much of this, of course, but that's sorta the whole idea. We're painting with dialog, and the dialog doesn't stop.

That's the idea. But there's a big set of logistic problems with getting it accomplished--audio vs. video (do we really have enough content in the latter), what is included, what are the "rules," etc. I basically envision us recording the audio entries for the discussions we're going to be using. We don't have to stick to the printed word, per se, unless it's germaine to the discussion. We sorta make it a little like the commentary on a DVD, but we're commenting on...well, whatever it is we're commenting on. Or, rather, whatever it is we already have commented on. That's the big selling point: We've already generated the content for this first season. Let me say that again; IT'S ALREADY DONE. We now just have to organize it and present it. You see, this isn't for us anymore. We have to get this show out to the public. I recommend us designing a website to house the whole first season of of DII: The Podcast Years (or whatever the hell we want to call it), as well as DI: The Book Years, and keep things afloat with a new message board there. Better yet, we could actually invest in this, say, $100 a person. We could keep it going for awhile on that initial investment (we could advertise, too), taking donations as we go, like a lot of wikis do. So, think of it like a wiki-blog-podcast.

We could allot ourselves one full year to complete the first season. That would give us a timeframe for motivation. We need motivation, evidently.

Everyone here already has the power to contribute to this (all computers these days come with some way of recording sound, and even the cheapest of mics CAN be used). That said, I think it might be wise to send things to a central location for the purpose of final production on each episode. We'll want it to sound both slick and DIY at the same time to have any sort of appeal. Fortunately, several of us have good sound equipment, and some of us even know how to use it!

Anyway, that's ONE way it could be done.

[rickus]

When Katie and I were back in Idaho and had outwardly spoken to several of you about our intention to come back to OKC, I would sometimes muse about an Indigenous Salon. We've cast ourselves to the wind since then and our being located so far afield doesn't really lend it's self to the idea but I've always had a soft spot in my heart for it.

I had concocted the notion that we would take turns inviting individuals to come and address us as a gourp. We of course would compensate them for their time, a token amount of $50 or $60, for an hour or so presentation. They would be welcome to talk about anything they liked. They could play music, give us a poetry reading or a slide show of their trip down the Illinois river. After which we could then have some refreshment, and ask questions in our typical informal way. That always seemed a natural progression for our group. If enough of us ever happen to gravitate to a fixed point again perhaps this would be a fun way to grow our fellowship.

I like your ideas Justin. I like them a lot. I don't know very much about Pod Casting. I don't even subscribe to any. I know... The shame. Oh well. I'd like to see an audio pod cast developed and successfully distributed before we seriously give thought to a video pod cast. No real reason for that. It's just seems like a logical step than blindly leaping straight to video.

What are your thought about moving the message board to site you're proposing?

You see, I've Googled us in the past with phrases I was sure would return a link to us... To this board. But have always turned up empty handed. That tells me this board is an island far far far from the main shipping lanes of the net. I'd like to see our ideas cast out for others to find. My suspicion is that that won't happen if we leave our interaction confined to Proboards.

I guess what I'm really getting at is this: we're dwindling. Of the 30 members on the board only about ten of us will post in any given week. And unless people are able to find the board on their own, or we continue to invite everyone we personally know to join in, this board will die off.

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

[Thanin]

rickus said:

I guess what I'm really getting at is this: we're dwindling. Of the 30 members on the board only about ten of us will post in any given week. And unless people are able to find the board on their own, or we continue to invite everyone we personally know to join in, this board will die off.

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Fewer monkeys.


I did want to say that my absence had very little to do with any political arguments on this board and had everything to do with the shitty way I was treated on one fateful night in early january. Jeff, you did screw me over, but then again a lot of people screwed me over that night. I have a different outlook about everything now so I feel ok with being on the board again.

I'd hope that this board never gets abandoned. This is the only way we're all able to related to each other nowadays. Maybe we're just fooling ourselves and it might be healthier if we finally just let us all go (something I almost did). But... well I don't really have an answer to that.

[Jeff]

I did screw you over. Absolutely correct. No doubt. Sorry. No defense. I told you that I was going to before I did, but, of course, that is no help. All I can say is that I was treated worse that night than you were. And I was emotionally distraught when I screwed you over, i.e., it's not something I would do if I weren't in a very stressful situation calling hospitals and police stations to find out if I still had a family.

But once again, sorry.

[Thanin]

Oops forgot to respond to this. I accept your apology Jeff. Maybe someday I'll be apologizing to you.