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Post by kyle on Apr 7, 2006 13:22:29 GMT -5
Jeff, I'm glad to hear that you don't think making fun of someone elses beliefs is an acceptable way to deal with fundamentalists. I would think that with an outlook like the quote below, it would be hard to "reason with" or "explain your faith a carefully as you can" and hope for a good outcome. I used to think that I could prove that every Republican was either stupid or evil. Now I see much of their stupidity as belligerence and much of their evil as blindness, whether willful or no. So, a person can be a Christian and a Republican if her conception of faith is really a kind of spiritual belligerence or blindness. Such a person could envision faith primarily as an act of will, which would accord well with Republican “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps” ideology. Jeff Please correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the only good outcome would be for them to believe as you believe and/or become Democrats.
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Post by Jeff on Apr 7, 2006 13:48:31 GMT -5
Second time is a charm: Kyle, you don't have to believe what I do, but your party has to stop hurting people!
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Post by Jeff on Apr 7, 2006 13:55:07 GMT -5
PS While I am not exactly in favor of making fun of other people's beliefs, I am for talking truth to power. (Nathan is one of my personal heroes.) I am just giving my best arguments and my sober assessments. I am always willing to listen to an opposing view, even to change my mind about things in light of evidence. If most of the people on your side were willing to do the same, I don't think I'd have nearly as much of a problem.
Anyway, it's good to see you back. I hope all is well with you.
Jeff
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Post by kyle on Apr 7, 2006 23:32:09 GMT -5
(It sounds ludicrous and simple-minded to me, but I think that’s the logic.) ...I like your sober assessments... I'm not sure that anyone who's ideas are being called ludicous and simple-minded should be expected to be open to changing their point of view?
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Post by jtmx1 on Apr 8, 2006 0:19:39 GMT -5
I do not pretend that anything can be honorable. I am too simple to wear so many faces. Neither do I attempt conversions. And if I did, I would not pander to prejudice.
Rather, I seek common ground. We both agree that Jesus was great. If, like me, you think his existence was the single most important event in human history, then I suppose we have a hell of a lot in common. After that, we simply have to decide who has things mostly wrong. Why should this involve ego? I am surely wrong on countless issues. But am I mostly wrong? I don’t think so, but please count the ways. Show me the money!
Right now I am sure that the interests of the 24,000 people who will die of starvation and hunger TOMORROW are more important than the interests of the wealthy or even the middle class in any country, including the United States. Right now I am sure that private property is less important than the common good—though I do think that capitalistic individualism has an important role to play in securing opportunity for the great mass of human beings. But it is a means not an end, and when it conflicts with the common good, it should go right out the window. Right now I feel secure that people who hate and ostracize and belittle others in Jesus’ name are the worst blasphemers. Right now I think the NRA promulgates worse ideas than the NAACP or the ACLU. Right now I feel secure that our rendering unto Caesar was never meant to leave so many without food shelter or hope. And so on…
Convince me of my error. I promise to follow the evidence in every case. And when my human limitations prevent me from following, at the very least I will suspend judgment and thank you for teaching me something new.
Jeff
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Post by kyle on Apr 19, 2006 22:44:36 GMT -5
Sorry I helped Jeff get side-tracked on this topic Rick but was there no Prayer of Confession for Easter?
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Post by rickus on Apr 20, 2006 9:23:56 GMT -5
....was there no Prayer of Confession for Easter? Well... I imagine there was. However I was not there to hear it as I was on my way back from my Grandmother's funeral in Knoxville, TN. Long drive that is! She was my last living grandparent, and died unexpectedly at age 80, the morning of the 11th from a heart attack. I say unexpectedly because she took amazing care of herself. Just a couple of weeks before she had gone hiking in the Smoky Mountains. I guess it just goes to prove, regardless of all the preventative measures you might take; when it's your time to go, it's your time to go. However I will do my very best to attend services this coming Sunday and procure a new Prayer of Confession for your reading pleasure.
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Post by jtmx1 on Apr 20, 2006 10:17:22 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about your grandmother, Rickus.
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Post by wrikkus on Apr 20, 2006 10:21:33 GMT -5
Thanks Jeff!
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Post by kyle on Apr 20, 2006 22:16:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that as well...
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Post by rickus on Apr 21, 2006 9:35:28 GMT -5
Thanks Kyle!
So... Racquetball. I busted (ie. sprained badly) my ankle playing Caleb last week. My right ankle is about the size of a softball. It's bruised from just above my ankle down to my toes and I'm taking 600 Mg of Advil every 8-10 hours to keep the swelling down. That said, when Katie came home from class that evening and saw what I had done, she was... How can I say this kindly: "Unhappy with me," would be accurate, without being too descriptive, I think. You see, this has put a lil kink in the Ol' Denali training regime. She told me (not asked) to put off playing racquetball until I had hauled my butt up and (note the cap letters) SAFELY back down the mountain.
So. If you're still interested in playing, I'd love to in June of 07. Do you think you can work that into your schedule?
Sorry for the inconvenience. rickus
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Post by rickus on Apr 24, 2006 21:17:27 GMT -5
Sunday, April 23, 2006 Lord of Life, help us to remember that faith does not come by seeing, or by hearing, or by touching -- but as a derivative of grace. Like Thomas, we have our doubts, but apparently God loves doubters too. The resurrection is not just for eye-witnesses. It is for all of us who believe that God has the last word. In Christ's name we pray, Amen. The Scripture reading was from John 20:19-29. By the way, all six of Dr. Meyers sermons concerning Pres. Carters book: Our Endangered Values, are up on the Mayflower Congregational website.
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Post by rickus on May 2, 2006 8:14:36 GMT -5
Lord of Life, help us to remember that Easter is not just about an empty tomb. It is also about gathering around the table of reconciliation, forgiveness, and love. While many debate the whereabouts of a body, the scriptures tell us that when we gather around a table in his name, we will know the true meaning of the resurrection. He is present when we eat the feast of the kingdom. In Christ's name we pray, Amen. The scripture reading was from Luke 24:36-48
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Post by kyle on May 2, 2006 21:59:33 GMT -5
Was this last prayer the one from Easter Sunday? What does "While many debate the whereabouts of a body" mean? Is he talking about people back in Jesus time or is he talking about today...did he elaborate on that?
By the way, I've got to say that I like my new job so much that on the 7th day of actual work I went on an interview for another job...cold calling is for the birds!
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Post by rickus on May 21, 2006 22:54:43 GMT -5
Sunday, May 21, 2006 Lord of Life, we are all looking for the presence of God in our lives. Sometimes we look in all the wrong places. Instead of lightning and thunder, we should be looking closely into the faces of the stranger, the lost, the hungry. When we say we can't find Jesus, the next question should be, "Where are you looking?" In Christ's name we pray, Amen. The scripture reading was from John 21:4-7 As an aside, every summer Dr. Meyers leaves for Colorado and return after about 8 weeks. Last summer he wrote a book that's just been released: Why the Christian Right Is Wrong. <-- This is a link. In his absence, each year the church invites a wide range of speakers to the the church in what's know as the "The Pulpit Series." They've had all sorts of individuals come in and speak; a Jewish rabbi from a local synagogue, The Reverend Carlton Pearson, well known Christian authors, State Democratic pundit Frosty Troy, and a lot more. Well this morning we were talking about the Pulpit Series in Bible Study Class and Dr. Meyers Personal Assistant let slip that the church is trying to persuade former President Jimmy Carter to come and speak to the congregation. Apparently one of the members of my church is a personal friend of Mr. Carter's and has been working the poor guy over to get him to agree to do it. But there's still no word on it. If and when that is announced I'll let you guys know, so hopefully you might be able to attend. I'm pretty sure it will be standing room only though. We have a full house even when it's just our regular Ol' Dr. Meyers.
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